Tankbusting 101 - Weapon comparison - BS4

For the last couple of weeks I have been quite busy not getting around to writing anything more on the chaos book.  It seems anything I can do to avoid writing I seem to do instead. 

What I thought I would do instead is write an updated 6th edition anti tank capability comparison between various weapons in both Space Marine and Imperial Guard lists including as many of the different types of guns as I could think of, seeing how bs 3 and 4 affect the various weapons and equally importantly looking at how the changes to how AP affects armour harms your chances of a kill. 

Firstly lets look at common anti tank weapons available to marines using BS4 adjusted for 6th edition AP values, bearing in mind anything with ap 3+ is actually 50% worse at tank killing now;

ML                                Chance of Glance        Chance of Pen          Chance of kill

VS AV 10                              11.11%                    44.44%                7.41%

VS AV 11                              11.11%                    33.33%                5.56%

VS AV 12                              11.11%                    22.22%                3.70%

VS AV 13                              11.11%                    11.11%                 1.85%

VS AV 14                              11.11%                           0%                       0%

Lascannon                     Chance of Glance        Chance of Pen          Chance of kill

VS AV 10                              11.11%                    55.55%                 18.52%

VS AV 11                              11.11%                    44.89%                 14.81%

VS AV 12                              11.11%                    33.50%                 11.05%

VS AV 13                              11.11%                    22.11%                  7.30%

VS AV 14                              11.11%                    10.72%                  3.54%

TL Lascannon                 Chance of Glance        Chance of Pen          Chance of kill

VS AV 10                              13.88%                    69.44%                 23.15%

VS AV 11                              13.88%                    55.55%                 18.52%

VS AV 12                              13.88%                    41.67%                 13.88%

VS AV 13                              13.88%                    27.76%                  9.25%

VS AV 14                              13.88%                    13.88%                  4.44%

Autocannon*                    Chance of Glance     Chance of Pen          Chance of kill

VS AV 10                              11.11%                    33.33%                   5.56%

VS AV 11                             11.11%                    22.22%                    3.70%

VS AV 12                             11.11%                    11.11%                    1.85%

VS AV 13                             11.11%                           0%                       0%

VS AV 14                                   0%                           0%                        0%

TL Autocannon*             Chance of Glance        Chance of Pen          Chance of kill

VS AV 10                              13.88%                    41.67%                   6.67%

VS AV 11                              13.88%                    27.76%                   4.63%

VS AV 12                              13.88%                    13.88%                   2.22%

VS AV 13                              13.88%                           0%                      0%

VS AV 14                                      0%                          0%                      0%

 Assault Cannon**           Chance of Glance        Chance of Pen          Chance of kill
 VS AV 10                              11.11%                    22.22%                   3.70%
 VS AV 11                              11.11%                    11.11%                    1.85%
 VS AV 12                                    0%                    11.11%                    3.70%
 VS AV 13                                3.70%                      7.41%                   2.46%
 VS AV 14                                3.70%                      3.70%                   1.23%

 TL Assault Cannon**      Chance of Glance        Chance of Pen          Chance of kill
 VS AV 10                              13.88%                     27.39%                  4.57%
 VS AV 11                               13.88%                    13.28%                   2.21%
 VS AV 12                                      0%                    13.28%                  6.64%
 VS AV 13                                4.43%                      8.86%                   2.93%

 VS AV 14                                4.43%                      4.43%                   1.48%

Melta under half range   Chance of Glance        Chance of Pen          Chance of kill

 VS AV 10                               1.83%                     64.84%                  33.03%

 VS AV 11                               3.66%                     61.17%                  31.20%

 VS AV 12                               5.49%                     55.68%                  28.76%

 VS AV 13                               7.32%                     48.36%                  25.40%

 VS AV 14                               9.15%                     39.21%                  21.14%

Melta over half range      Chance of Glance        Chance of Pen          Chance of kill

 VS AV 10                               11.11%                    44.44%                  24.07%

 VS AV 11                               11.11%                    33.33%                  18.55%

 VS AV 12                               11.11%                   22.22%                   12.96%

 VS AV 13                               11.11%                    11.11%                   7.41%

 VS AV 14                               11.11%                          0%                   1.85%

* has two shots, this is a per shot comparison, so you get two chances of this

** has four shots, this is a per shot comparison, so you get four chances of this

A thought on Mech

As we all know, 5th edition has revolved around mechanised troops choices.  The armies who are better at this are coincidentally those armies which are stronger than others. 
The traditional view is that you place your troops choice in the transport and it protects them from enemy fire, and hopefully gets all the way over to the objective before it is destroyed, although in an ideal world, it won't get destroyed at all.

The normal way to achieve this would be to deploy a lot of transports, to ensure at least some of them make it across the table, but it can still cause you problems if they blow up too early.

One of the things you can do to increase the survivability of your transports is to spend a turn out of the transport, when the enemy small arms weapons are not in range.  The idea of this is to try to make your opponent fire his heavy weapons at the troops.  Now this might seem a stupid idea, but let me elaborate. 

You could have 3 rhinos and three razorbacks, transporting various marines.  What I am suggesting is to deploy one unit outside of their transport, or disembark onto an objective early on in the game.  The idea is that the enemy will target the troops unit, and shoot them in preference to the rhino.  If all goes to plan, you won't loose the entire unit of marines, but they will absorb a significant amount of enemy long range fire.  Don't do this within rapid fire range, or it could go badly wrong.  Once you have taken a turns worth of fire, hide them back inside the rhino which has been spared a round of shooting.

What you are trying to do is control where the enemy concentrates their fire.  He needs to beleive you have made a mistake and thus the unit draws a lot of enemy fire.  However as long as one model survives, to get back inside his rhino, the unit is still scoring and you haven't actually lost anything!

Dreadnought Weapons Part 2

This follow on article on Dreadnought Weapons Part 1 is comparing the Rifleman design to the standard box dreadnought armed with an assault cannon/powerfist.

On the field, they both do different things.  The Rifleman design is by its nature a stand off and shoot dreadnought.  It has no incentive to charge towards the enemy, indeed it should be hanging around at the back firing its guns at light transports like Rhinos and Chimera.  With its reasonable mobility compared to a battletank, it can move around the table edges and fire both its guns, meaning you can move it around to get into side arks.  This is pretty much its sole use, albeit one which is useful if you lack volume of long range anti tank fire.

In comparison the assault cannon design works in a totally different fashion.  The assault cannon has half the range, but twice the rate of fire of the autocannon, but no twin link. Still, on average, an assault cannon will get 2.64 hits on average which is more than the autocannon can possibly get.  This instead gets around 1.66 hits on average if I have done my maths correctly.  There are however two such autocannons on the Rifleman bringing its average hits up to 3.33.  The assault cannon dread comes with a built in stormbolter/powerfist combo which can be upgraded to a heavy flamer/powerfist combo for a minimal amount of points.

As you can see, this makes the box dreadnought a more versatile unit at closer ranges, ideally staying 12-24 inches away from anything with a meltagun.  If you stray within melta range, your dreadnought is likely to be turned into scrap metal, much like any other vehicle.  You do however have the option of charging a unit with the box dreadnought configuration as you are armed with a Dreadnought Close Combat Weapon [DCCW].  This functions much like a powerfist but doesn't strike last and is strength 10 on every hit, ignoring saves.  While this may not kill a lot of models per turn, it is an option against small units of elite troops provided they are not armed with more than one of the following:  Meltabombs, Thunder hammers, Power fists, Power clawz, Witchblades, Singing Spears, Warscythes etc.  Monstrous creatures of all types, unless badly injured and only have one wound left. Necron Scarabs should be avoided at all costs as they will likely destroy your dreadnought in one round of combat. 

If the enemy do not have the required anti dreadnought weapons and are relatively small in number, you can charge into combat and protect yourself from melta in the enemies next turn.  Obviously you need both units to remain locked in combat for at least one round to take advantage.  Too many enemies and you could end up being tarpitted forever.  Not that this is neccersarily a bad thing, it depends on what unit you engaged in combat.  If it is exceptional at shooting but poor in close combat, this could well be a good use of this dreadnought design as shooting units tend not to be armed with close combat implements.  If you have taken the heavy flamer upgrade, you can cause a lot of damage to lighter infantry before charging which can help in this matter.

Now all of this is fine in theory, but if you are considering not using a rifleman you will want to see the numbers.  As before, the twin autocannon statistics are as follows.  Please note in this example, both designs have exactly the same number of shots, but these numbers are on a per shot basis.

TLAC                           Chance of Glance        Chance of Pen          Chance of kill
 VS AV 10                              13.88%                    41.66%                13.88%
 VS AV 11                              13.88%                    27.76%                  9.25%
 VS AV 12                              13.88%                    13.88%                  4.44%
 VS AV 13                              13.88%                           0%                      0%
 VS AV 14                                     0%                          0%                      0%

Assault Cannon               Chance of Glance        Chance of Pen          Chance of kill
 VS AV 10                              11.11%                    22.22%                   7.41%
  VS AV 11                              11.11%                    11.11%                  3.70%
 VS AV 12                                     0%                    11.11%                   3.70%
 VS AV 13                                3.70%                      7.41%                   2.46%
 VS AV 14                                3.70%                      3.70%                   1.23%

So what do these numbers tell you?  Quite a lot really.  Against every armour value up to 13 the autocannon is better.  It is considerably better on a per shot basis than the assault cannon against AV 10 and 11 while the AV 12 is reasonably comparable.  At AV12 onwards, this is where Rending helps the assault cannon outperform its low strength value and offers a small percent chance of damaging every thing in the game, something the autocannon fails on.  Notice you can't glance armour 12.  You can only penetrate or not. 

This is without taking into account the damage the box dreadnoughts secondary weapon can do. 

Stormbolter               Chance of Glance        Chance of Pen          Chance of kill
 VS AV 10                              11.11%                         0%                         0%

Heavy Flamer             Chance of Glance        Chance of Pen          Chance of kill
 VS AV 10                              16.66%                    16.66%                    5.55%
 VS AV 11                              16.66%                          0%                        0%

As you can see from these numbers, the heavy flamer is actually pretty decent against AV 10, with exactly 1/3 chance of either a glance/penetrate, although it does require you to be virtually on top of an enemy tank.  This is not necessarily a bad thing, as you can assault the tank with your DCCW after if it should survive.  The stormbolter provides a small amount of extra firepower, but can't really do anything to any tanks.

Now there is another weapon which can be used on a dreadnought to provide anti-tank fire.  It is the best anti tank weapon available to space marines and is the cheapest dreadnought option, coming built in for free.  I am talking about the multimelta. 

Melta over half range   Chance of Glance        Chance of Pen          Chance of kill
 VS AV 10                               11.11%                    44.44%                  24.07%
 VS AV 11                               11.11%                    33.33%                  18.55%
 VS AV 12                               11.11%                   22.22%                   12.96%
 VS AV 13                               11.11%                    11.11%                   7.41%
 VS AV 14                               11.11%                          0%                   1.85%

Now due to the melta rule using two dice for armour penetration, the percentages will be somewhat different. 

Melta under half range   Chance of Glance        Chance of Pen          Chance of kill
 VS AV 10                               1.83%                     64.84%                  33.03%
 VS AV 11                               3.66%                     61.17%                  31.20%
 VS AV 12                               5.49%                     55.68%                  28.76%
 VS AV 13                               7.32%                     48.36%                  25.40%
 VS AV 14                               9.15%                     39.21%                  21.14%

As you can see from these numbers, any weapon which is strength 8 and has the melta rule, will have these statistics.  Over half range and it is only slightly more effective than a missile launcher and is less effective than either the assault cannon or autocannon due to their volume of fire and accuracy.  Within close range, the melta weapons have a very high chance of inflicting a kill on nearly anything.

Chaos Space marines are good for Beginners

I thought I would take this opportunity to look into why I still believe Chaos Space Marines are a good army.  Indeed, it is my opinion that they are possibly the best army in the game to learn how to play the system with, rather than regular Space Marines.  This may come as a shock to many readers, but I will hopefully be able to explain my reasons why I beleive this to be the case.

Point 1.
They are MEQs.  This means they have good armour, reasonable statistics and a reasonable gun.  Regular Chaos space marines have the ability to take two of the same special weapon in a ten man unit or one and a heavy weapon.  This allows them to imitate regular tactical squads, or field a more aggressive, shorter ranged unit. 

Point 2.
The book is very simple.  Most units have no or very few special rules of any kind.  While this is bland and boring, it is also incredibly easy for someone to pick up and learn.  After a few games, players tend to notice that Plague Marines, Berserkers and regular Chaos Space Marines are better than Thousand Sons and Noise Marines for example.

Point 3.
They have very few competitive units.  There are pretty much only three really good units in the book, and a handful of good ones in my experience.  The really good ones are Nurgle Daemon Princes, Plague Marines and Obliterators.  The good units are Berserkers, Chaos Space marines and Terminators.  Most of the rest of the units are either nothing special, over priced, or down right terrible.  Some of these are more than usable, in the right build, but require a bit more planning, so are not as newbie friendly as the units in the Really good/good categories.

You can therefore make a tournament competitive level list by taking two Daemon Princes of Nurgle with wings, three units of two/three Obliterators, and filling your points up on small units of plague marines with dual melta in Rhinos.  This is, all things considered a simple list to design and play with.  It only has three different units.  With the new FAQ, Warptime is no longer as mandatory as it used to be, but it is possibly still worth having on your Daemon Prince.  Otherwise just stick with wings.

Point 4.
Chaos follow the normal rules for leadership.  Unlike regular space marines, who have "And they shall know no know fear" which is very newbie friendly, the units in the chaos marine book, generally speaking, are either regular on leadership tests, or fearless.  Playing with these rules is useful as a stepping stone into the xenos codexes or guard.  If you learn with loyalist Space marines, it can be difficult to adapt to the other armies, due to the space marines inherent resilience to being run down in hand to hand and automatically rallying regardless of squad size.

Point 5.
Cheap in terms of money.  Unlike a lot of armies, this army can be very cheap to buy.  While individual units and models within this list are quite expensive, you get a lot of points and more importantly, you will use these models.  If you just buy the four model types I suggested, these will always find a place in your list.  This is not my usual experience with units in other codexes, where very expensive units, like Land Raiders, can sit gathering dust for months between games.

I hope this has given people some food for thought.  Any feedback is welcome.

Dreadnought Weapons Part 1

The Rifleman dreadnought is generally considered to be an optimal build for Space Marine dreadnaughts.  This article is going to explore if it really is better as an anti tank configuration than the older Twin lascannon/Missile launcher, aka Dark Angels Dreadnought configuration.  The general wisdom on the internet suggests that the Rifleman should be considerably better. 

TLAC = Twin linked Autocannon
TLLC = Twin linked Lascannon
ML = Missile launcher

Here goes.  Ill work to two decimal places for rounding purposes.  I don't see the point in being more accurate than that, as most dice are less than accurate!

All numbers are assuming a bs of 4.

TLAC                           Chance of Glance        Chance of Pen          Chance of kill
VS AV 10                              13.88%                    41.66%                13.88%
VS AV 11                              13.88%                    27.76%                  9.25%
VS AV 12                              13.88%                    13.88%                  4.44%
VS AV 13                              13.88%                           0%                      0%
VS AV 14                                      0%                          0%                      0%

Obviously, you need to take into account these numbers have four chances of coming up due to the TLAC dreadnought having four shots.  The numbers provided above are per shot.  Please note that this does not mean you add up all the percentages.  It doesn't work that way!

TLLC                           Chance of Glance        Chance of Pen          Chance of kill
VS AV 10                              13.88%                    69.44%                 23.15%
VS AV 11                              13.88%                    55.55%                 18.52%
VS AV 12                              13.88%                    41.67%                 13.88%
VS AV 13                              13.88%                    27.76%                  9.25%
VS AV 14                              13.88%                    13.88%                  4.44%

The TLLC has just one shot.   It has a very high chance of doing something vs low armour, and a chance of destroying anything in the game.  Finally for the ML, its partner in crime.

ML                              Chance of Glance        Chance of Pen          Chance of kill
VS AV 10                              11.11%                    44.44%                 14.81%
VS AV 11                              11.11%                    33.33%                 11.11%
VS AV 12                              11.11%                    22.22%                  7.41%
VS AV 13                              11.11%                    11.11%                  3.70%
VS AV 14                              11.11%                           0%                       0%

As per the lascannon, this only has one shot.  Due to not being twinlinked, the chance of rolling a hit in the first place is lower, which in turn reduces its chances of a glance. 

While the individual shots of the Dark Angels configuration may offer a lot higher chance of killing something, there is less of them.  This in turn leads to less glancing hits.  If you want your dreadnought to lock down an enemy tank by shaken/stunned results, then the Rifleman is both cheaper and more effective/reliable than the Dark Angels build.  If however, you want your dreadnought to actually kill enemy armour, then the Dark Angels design is better. 

This however presents its own issue.  The TLLC arm is less effective as an anti tank weapon than a multimelta. The multi melta is also cheaper, but has a shorter range, and considerably shorter range for its lethal melta rule to come into place.  This will be discussed further in a later article.

Tactical marines vs Grey Knight strike squads

This is the first in hopefully a series of comparisons between similar troop’s choices in different armies.  I hope to show that not all is as it seems between units which at first glance seem to be a poor option.

As space marines of various flavours are Games Workshops highest selling ranges, I think we can safely assume that they are probably the most popular.  Let us take a look at a common choice amongst players, the tactical space marine squad.  I hear quite a lot that all space marine armies should be based around three to four tactical marine units.  So I thought I would take a look and do a compare and contrast with grey knight strike squads

You can have five to ten space marines, who come with all the normal rules and basic equipment space marines generally do.  They have a sergeant and optional special and/or heavy weapons.  They can't take either of these options unless you have ten models, but then you get them free/discounted.  Therefore logic suggests you are paying at least part of these costs in the models you buy for the squad.

These compare badly to grey knight strike squads.  These come with a storm bolter and a power weapon for only a small amount of points more than tactical marines.   If they were paying the going rate for their weaponry they would be around ten points a model more than they are currently paying.  They can also upgrade their guns strength and field a supremely decent heavy weapon in the form of the pyscannon cheaply.

The next question you have to bear in mind is how important each unit is to the army it is included in.  Space marine tactical marines compete directly with scouts and bikes (if you have a biker captain) whereas strike squads compete against terminators and henchmen (with Coatez).  This is probably why the strike squads are cheap.  If they were more expensive, they would just be too uncompetitive against terminators in the same slot.  Tactical marines are unfortunately constrained by decades of being equipped the same, much like godhammer land raiders.  It is highly unlikely that tactical marines will ever change in their weapon choices, even in a new book.

Does this mean that tactical marines are miles worse than grey knights?  Not really.  They actually perform a slightly different role in the armies they are assigned to.  Space marines generally are a cheaper, therefore higher model count list than the grey knights.   Tactical marines can take the ever popular meltagun and multimelta combo, which is useful against mechanised armies which tend to dominate 5^th edition.

Having a power weapon, but only one attack limits how good at combat the strike squad is and stormbolters, while being good for basic troopers, are not exactly killing loads of the enemy as you are unlikely to have very many of them.  You can upgrade the guns with pysbolts but this is only economic in larger numbers of models which can be difficult to find the points for in a grey knight list.  The pyscannon is near mandatory, but can be fielded better on purgation squads which can field more of them, or on terminators which are relentless and can therefore use them more efficiently.